The Poetics of Materials: In Conversation with Yarli Allison Lam

I Wish You Pluffy Pluffy, Slade Show 2017, London, UK 

/ a discussion with the artist around the relationships between the body and sculpture making, between emotional experience and the use of materials, nomadicity, language, and performance.  

Made for the Slade Show 2017, Yarli’s multimedia installation I Wish You Pluffy Pluffy originates from an indescribable feeling of drifting that the artist endured throughout her nomadic life. Standing in-between the meticulously assembled and playfully incomplete, this work functions as coping mechanisms to the sense of insecurity via the process of its making and the imaginary narratives attached. The diversity of materials in her works often speaks out the complexity of the psychological and emotional experience. 

Yarli A. Lam (b.1988) is a Canadian-born Hong Kong artist based in London. She graduated in 2017 with a MFA in Sculpture from The Slade School of Fine Art, University College London, UK.

“Then We Could Share These Red Buoys” in I Wish You Pluffy Pluffy, HD Video with Audio, Duration 04:30 Loop, 2017

S: At the first sight when I saw your installation at the Slade’s degree show, the soy sauce bottles and the casted lotus roots made me think that this artist might come from an Asian background.

Y: I am very glad that you bring that up as not many people know about that. I grew up and influenced by Asian thoughts, especially when I met Korean and Japanese people, we talked about almost the same thing and I realised how strong cultural thoughts are different compared to when I was in Canada, so I tried to integrate these things back to my practice. 

S: You said that most of works depart from your nomadic experience of life. Do you consider your work as a metaphor or a mirror for your state of existence? 

Y: I did think about this subject when I was a teen. When one never felt somewhere as home then she would start to think what is the meaning of home, and where they feel they belong to. I would say the state of existence is definitely a strong drive behind all these works. I also pointed out nomadicity. When I am thinking about home I am thinking about movement and transform, technology, and how it resembles ship, boat or views— invention of these stuffs that allow us see from afar; how diversity comes and also the different languages. And then I realised that afterwards, in my degree show, there is a strong association with the refugees. I saw a lot of people pointed out the refugee problem, even though I didn’t start from that point, but I wouldn’t say I didn’t touch that, because we were finding similarities. Like one person is forced to leave their home to seek for a better life— that psychologically is quite similar to anyone that has immigration experience, not necessarily experiencing war. 

S: A lot of your works are to do with emotion and its impact upon the body and then you transfer or transform this experience into material, to the physicality of art making. The interplay between your materials in your installation is really interesting. Could you speak about the specific roles of the materials that you use?  

Y: I think the material itself reflects the state where I was in, when I was thinking about a particular idea. For example when I am thinking about enclosing myself in a comfortable but restrictive place, when I talked to myself in something that is steel— when I put my head into a laundry machine and started to talk to myself, the sound bounces. I felt claustrophobic, but it felt like it is the sound from within, and it is close to one’s psychological experience. It felt like that I was listening to the voice inside. I have no control. My brain reflects the bounce. 

Also, I like materials, especially soft materials. I saved soft blanket that I had in my childhood. Not even human— there is a psychological study about monkeys in the relationship with soft, clothed monkey mother versus steel frame monkey mother. The scientists made two monkey mothers, one in the metal skeleton and the other in the soft cloth. Even though they are not their biological mother, the monkeys do prefer the soft one. 

S: It is about the behaviour of the material and its influence upon the human psyche. 

Y: And it reflects the emotional response and its effectiveness. You experience it every day, like with architectural material. Material has a life that influences our everyday psychological response. Maybe I am thinking more in sculptural perspective. I had this conversation with my painter friends. They are very aware of the surface, whereas I am not too aware of the surface but I am aware more of the space or material. We react to different things. 

S: You are thinking as a sculptor.

Y: Yes, maybe that is related to my upbringing and training. Having to move from one home to another even across the ocean, it is hard not to be aware of the shifts of sensational experience. I often question if classification is needed and it leads to my non-binary approach to work.

S: The transformation or metamorphosis between your body and your work is very interesting. Like the work Study of Pores, it is in latex and silicon. 

Y: For latex there is a skin-like quality. Wax doesn’t have that flexibility, unlike latex that I feel that I can manipulate in any way just like with paper. That work is really a study, to see how emotionally and psychologically I can get close to the skin. And after that study I combined it together to make the video Momo, The Talking Hair. At that time I was still thinking about what to do with these materials. They are just materials, they don’t mean that much to me at that time. It is like giving birth to your baby and suddenly you realise you’re incompetent to raising child. 

Study of Pores, Silicone, latex, charcoal, plants, burlaps, steel rods / hooks, oil and acrylic paint, 30 sheets (40 x 30 cm each), 2016 

Momo, The Talking Hair, HD 16:9 Projected Video and Audio with Sculpture Installation, Duration: 07:44 Loop, 2016

S: Speaking about this notion of giving birth, I saw on your website that you fired small figures/ miniatures from a kiln. 

Y: Yes, you really study the timeline! I did that when I was in Canada, I didn’t find a home and I didn’t have a studio, so at that time I was struggling to make more of these. But here I have a studio, and I have a great home and I can really charge my body when I go home. These years at the Slade my practice changed a lot. I think maybe more playful because I feel psychologically more safe. And I would play to come out more and I don’t need to worry about anything else. I just put things together. If it works, then I’ll develop it.

Mindscape studies II, 7(L) x 3(D) x 2(W) cm, Glazed Porcelain and Stoneware, 2012 

S: In your works, there is a series of transformation, like from fire to clay, from leather to buoy. With buoy, it normally uses foam as its material but you chose to use leather. What is the reason for that?

Y: So again it is to do with the bodily interpretation in there. I combined rubber, foam, leather and clothing in that work. In the work Study of Pores, I felt like although I was trying to achieve making skin, it is just a representation of skin. The buoy is different because it is seen as a survival tool, or a creature-like thing that is used intimately hugging our body. So it remains simple as it is when I chose the material of leather. 

“Only If We Know How To Share This Buoy” in I Wish You Pluffy Pluffy,  Brazilian Natural Veg Tan Leather, Rubber, Velcro, Book-cloth, Painted Acrylic Tube, Printed Translucent Sticker with Illustration, Faux Fur, Painted Latex, Light Bulb, Caster, Foam, Steel Mount, 2017 

S: I felt that leather gives you a sense of protection, as in leather shoes, or in the sense that in ancient Rome, the warriors wore leather as protection when they go to war. Leather is hard but lighter. 

Y: For me it is interesting in how they choose certain kind of material to go on war. As in war is a death and life matter of survival, defending and killing, it is interesting to explore why would craftsmen think to choose leather as a protection material at that era and culture. 

S: Also with the net with yam pompoms hanging down from the ceiling, what do you think of that? 

Y: I used chicken wire, which the netting web functions originally to capture chickens. It traps animals as well as cutting them. I tried to create an environment of softness with the synthetic material of pompoms, knowing that it is quite inviting for touching, in contrast of the cold brutal material of chicken wire. I want to enhance a sense of danger even in the idea of comfort, but not actually cutting people's figure up. So although it takes double afford, I bend to hide every sharp wire-end carefully. The whole show is about the emotional and psychological response to danger in a safe grotto-like space. It is a contrast that even when I am dying, I hope that I could die with soft things that could comfort me. It may be a child developmental approach, associated with the theory of attachment as well.

“And I Wish You Pluffy Pluffy” in I Wish You Pluffy Pluffy Painted Chicken Wire Steel Netting, Painted Expanding Foam, Yarn PomPoms, Installation Size Varies, 2017 

S: When I was at the Slade show, I was immediately drawn to your piece because I was impressed by the resyntaxation of everyday objects that is embodied in your work. And then I thought about Helen Marten and she talked about the wary behaviour of material in art making. I think that your work is also very interesting in that sense. 

Y: When I was in Serpentine for Helen Marten’s show, she reminds me of how a combination of sculpture and material directs my eyes to follow the needs of her system of making or how she wants to open up the theme. 

S: Relating back to your association to softness in relation to coping with danger. I really think hardness is related to protection in the sense of shield, knife, or dagger. But maybe you’re talking about the sense of psychological danger rather than the real threat. 

Y: Yes I think so far in my life, the most uncomfortable thing is to do with this notion of drifting or feeling like drifting, the feeling of being unstable. I think if people sense instability, they will start to consider what mechanism that would cope with it. So I turn to science to find coping mechanism and strategies. The materiality of softness is one of the coping objects for coping emotional crisis. And that is the starting point of exploring other materials.

木-目，目-人 Wood-Eye, Eye-Human, Interactive Performance, steel, leather, wood, two projected videos, Length from 5 - 15 mins, 2016

S: When I saw your work “Wood-Eye, Eye-Human” (木-目，目-人), in which you have one projector with a long steel stick bounded on your head, and you invite the audience to put the small wood pieces on one side of the stick until the eye projected from the other side overlaps the image of an eye on the wall. I thought that in this participatory work you seemed to be deconstructing the word ‘相見’(to meet).

Y: I tried to. I came about it because I was teaching Chinese characters to my Western friends and I needed to find an entry point for them not to fall asleep. I took the character apart and composed, and realised that the history is so rich. It was a method for me when struggling to learn Chinese when I was brought from Canada to Hong Kong. For me, it's easier to memorise the word when I take the words apart and invent story behind it. So the study on pictograph comes in and it is more meaningful as well for my Western friends to remember the character. Traditional Characters consists a lot and traces back to how people survived thousands of years ago. For example like the meaning of “相見” combines with a wood or tree meets with an eye, and another human with another eye. It is not only about seeing but actually come to meet and know someone. Based on Chinese University of Hong Kong database, the word 相 may trace back to when human needs to climb up a tree to look far for enemy's arrival. I find these meaning interesting as they call for survival as well, integrating with philosophy and archaeology. 

S: Like archaeology of linguistics isn’t it. Relating back to the installation that you did for the degree show, it is quite performative. 

Y: Yes, I started from there.

Exposure Practice II (Outdoor), Performance with Clay and Steel, Part I Length 05:29, Part II 08:00, 2015 Canadian Winter

S: You had quite a few performance pieces that are to do with endurance, the endurance of pain, or endurance of bad weather, especially in one of your videos that really struck me— you were standing by the sea and you started to cut the concrete arm that you made. 

Y: I found that through these performances I felt a lot of trusting relations. When I was doing this Wood-Eye, Eye-Human. there is a lot of trust with my audience because I could literally be choked out of oxygen. It wasn't of much thinking but I always worked alone and this time I was like, let’s do this game, let’s bring people together to play with my experiment. The steel rod was quite heavy and it was just balancing with my head and neck. If there is any danger, my assistant Ismene would help stop the performance. The idea was that the audience balances the whole thing that two recorded eyes of my friend and mine, would meet each other by overlapping them. There were attempts to balance but some didn't work. Eventually, when someone did make these two eyes meet, my friends told me that the atmosphere shifted from intense and silence to relief and smile. My artist friend Jiyoung Yoo mentioned she was touched when seeing my bowing at the end. Each atmosphere is different and each performance is about sharing group energy and shared experience. 

S: What about that video work (It Says There Is A Dead Body) of you sleeping with a mannequin for three days? You were with yourself alone.

Y: It is quite a personal work that overcomes my work, to cope with my imaginary danger.

S: Like paranoia. 

Y: Yes, so I thought let’s make this horrible human thing and sleep next to it for three days, and my fear would be gone. That is an experiment about it. So I made this realistic mannequin that I felt horrible about and see my emotional reaction to it—maybe I will treat it as a friend or something. So I slept with it for three nights, and three nights I was terrified. I saw that it will come alive and reach its armless body to touch me. Every day and night I was thinking about how to cope with it, but at the end, I felt like, okay, the fear is all in my head. These imaginary dangers are just compulsive alerts those not able to control automatically but manually. After understanding that, I don’t have trouble staying alone anymore.

It Says There Is A Dead Body, Handbuild Ceramic figure (66” x 28”) with the creator/performer, Three nights filmed as Time-Lapse Video, Video Length: Night two (04:40), Night three (02:00), 2015 

S: It is like therapy.

Y: It is like training thing. I think training is my life goal, a long term thing, self-training on the coping mechanism. All the tools in my degree show are about coping.

S: In your degree show we saw this semi-circular thing that is attached to a stick, which I also found in one of your previous works called Me(n)tal Skin Cage 02. It was like the prosthesis. Did you move that from your previous work to your current piece? 

Y: Yes that was like a walking cane. I think that work is a good one to start. When I start the next work I always try to think about this work, how I start.

“For Now, All I Have Is Me And My Body” in I Wish You Pluffy Pluffy, Painted Wood, Casters, Silicone, Italian Natural Veg Tan Leather, Painted Steel, Rubber, Painted Latex, Oil Paint on Stockings, Foam, Perspex, Installation Size Varies, 2017 

Me(n)tal Skin Cage 02, Performer’s body, paint on steel, plastic foam, rubber, casters and magnets, Cage 31” x 16” x 16”, two walking canes in various sizes, Video Length: 07:25, 2015 

S: You build up relationship to your previous work, previous thinking.

Y: And also the sound. In a live performance, it was more emphasised in terms of the sound of metal furniture with human interactions. People move around versus where I move towards. They could grab my cage's handle but no one did. When I was banging the steel on the floor, mumbling to myself in the cage, or throwing the steel scraps in my cage that makes 'ding dong' sound, it all become part of the live musical experience as audiences described. Since then, I started to care about sound and would definitely explore that aspect more, even collaborating with sound experts or musicians.

For more about Yarli’s practice, you can find it here.

                                                                                                                                           — Sophie Guo

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

与艺术家林雅莉关于身体和雕塑制作之间及情感体验与材料的关系、迁移、语言和表演的讨论。

2017年伦敦大学学院斯莱德美术学院的毕业展上，林雅莉呈现的是一件用多重媒介制作的装置作品：《I Wish You Pluffy Pluffy》。这件作品来源于艺术家在其迁徙生活中所经受的那种不可描述的漂浮感。作品被精心拼装而成，却散发着某种有趣的未完成气质。通过作品的制作与为其赋予虚拟的叙事，这个装置被雅莉当作了对不安全感的应对机制。艺术家作品中材料的多元化经常能与心理体验和情感体验的复杂性联系起来。

林雅莉（Yarli Ailison Lam，1988—）出生在加拿大的香港艺术家，现生活与工作于伦敦。她于2017年毕业于英国伦敦大学学院斯莱德美术学院，获得雕塑硕士学位。

Sophie: 我在毕业展上第一眼看到你的作品时，其中的酱油瓶子和用水泥铸成的莲藕让我觉得这位艺术家可能来自亚洲。

Yarli: 我很高兴你能提出来，知道这个的人不多。我在亚洲长大，并且深受亚洲思维影响，尤其是当我碰见韩国人和日本人的时候，我们几乎都在谈论同样的事情。后来我意识到，亚洲的文化和加拿大是多么不同，所以我尝试着在实践中融入这些东西。

S: 你说你的大多作品来源于你生活中漂泊的体验，那么你的作品是你自身生存状态的隐喻或折射吗？

Y: 我的确在年少时想过这一点。当一个人永远都找不到家时，她会开始思考家的意义以及他们的归属。我的生存方式绝对是这些作品背后的强大动力。我也会特别指出“流动性”。当我想到家时，我会想到移动、转化、科技，还有它和船、视野以及那些帮助我们从远处观察的东西的相似性，多样性、不同的语言是怎么来的等等。然后我意识到，我的毕业作品和难民有着很强的关联。很多人关注难民问题，即使我并没有从难民问题出发来做这个作品，但我的确触碰到了这个问题，因为我与难民并非没有相似之处。就像一个人为了寻求更好的生活背井离乡，这和有移民经历的人的心理大致相似，而这种移民不一定是因为战争。

S: 你有许多作品都与情感以及情感对身体的冲击有关，你将这种经历转化为材料、在艺术作品的物性中表现出来。你装置中材料之间的相互作用十分有趣，你能谈谈你所使用的材料的具体作用吗？

Y: 我认为材料本身反映了我在思考某一事物时我的状态。比如当我在考虑将我自己围困在一个舒适的禁闭空间里，当我在铁铸的小空间里和自己对话，当我把我的头放入洗衣机然后开始自言自语时，声音会反弹。这好像是幽闭恐惧症的症状，但这种声音又像是身体内部发出来的，与我的内心体验息息相关。我似乎在倾听身体内部的声音，无法控制，而我的脑袋能反映这种反弹。

我也喜欢各种材料，尤其是柔软的材料，我把小时候用的软毛毯都保存下来了。不光是人，猴子也这样。有一个心理学研究，研究人员制作了两个猴子母亲，一个包裹着柔软的布料，一个用钢筋制成。虽然不是小猴子的亲生母亲，但小猴子还是更喜欢柔软的那个。

S: 这是关于我们对材料的态度以及材料对人类心理的影响。

Y: 并且材料能反映我们的情绪反应及其有效性。你每天都在经历各种材料，比如和建筑材料发生联系。材料能对我们的日常心理反应造成影响。也许我更多的是从雕塑的角度来考虑的。我和当画家朋友也聊过这些，他们更关注表面，我也注重表面，但我更注重空间或材料。我们关注不同的东西。

S: 你是以一个雕塑家的身份进行思考的。

Y: 对，这也许和我的成长经历和艺术熏陶有关。我不断地搬家，甚至跨洋，这让我不得不注意到我情感上的变化。我常常怀疑分类是否必要，所以我都以非二元的方式来对待作品。

S: 你的身体和你的作品之间的转化非常有趣，就像在作品《毛孔的习作》（Study of Pores）中，就是乳胶和蜡的转化。

Y: 乳胶的质地很像皮肤，蜡就没有那种灵活性，而乳胶就能任我使用，就像纸。这件作品是一个习作，试试我能把材料运用得在情感上和心理上与皮肤有多接近。在做了这个研究之后，我把它结合起来制作了影像作品《会说话的毛发Momo》(Momo, The Talking Hair)，那时我仍然在思考如何处理这些材料，那时它们对我来说并不算什么。这就像生小孩，你生完突然意识到，其实并不知道如何去把这个孩子养大。

S: 说起生育的概念，我在你的网站上看到你会烧制极小的人像。

Y: 是的！你真的好好做了一番研究。我在加拿大的时候会这么做，我没有家，没有工作室，所以那时候我很纠结要不要接着这么做。但现在我在这儿有工作室，有一个很棒的家，我能回家很好地充电。在斯莱德的这些年，我的创作改变了很多。我觉得我的作品变得更放松、更有嬉戏感，因为我变得更加心安。而且我会做更多作品，也不用担心其他事情。我就是把各种材料组装到一起，如果觉得某个行得通，那我会接着做下去。

S: 在你的作品中有一系列“转化”，比如火与陶、皮革与救生圈的之间的转换。一般救生圈都是用泡沫制成的，你却选择使用皮革，为什么？

Y: 这也和对身体诠释有关。我在这件作品中用了橡胶、泡沫、皮革和衣物的剩余布料。在作品《毛孔的习作》》中，我觉得虽然我想要制作皮肤，但它只是长得像皮肤而已。救生圈则不尽相同，因为它被看做是一种求生工具，是一种能够与我们的身体亲密接触的东西。所以当我选择皮革这种材料时，就是这么简单。

S: 我觉得皮革会给你一种保护，就像我们穿着皮鞋那样，或者古罗马那些勇士在上战场时会穿上皮革护体。因为皮革很硬，又很轻。

Y: 对我来说，他们上战场时会选择什么材料非常有趣。因为战争就是生死之间的斗争，互相捍卫、杀戮，思考为什么在那个时代和文化背景下工匠会选择皮革作为保护材料很有意思。

S: 还有天花板上用绒球作成的网，你怎么看待它？

Y: 我用了铁丝网，它本来是用来捉小鸡的。它能够夹住小动物，也会割到它们。我用绒球的合成材料试着创造一个柔软的环境，让大家都忍不住摸摸它，这和铁丝网这种冷酷残忍的材料形成对比。我想要创造危险感，但又不会真的划到别人。所以虽然要花更多力气，我仍然小心地把尖锐的铁丝藏了起来。整个展览是关于在一个安全的岩洞空间里的情感和心理回应。我想就算当我要死了，我也要包裹着能安抚我的柔软织物中死去。这也许是一种孩童式的做法，也和依恋理论有关。

S: 在斯莱德毕业展上，我马上就被你的作品吸引了，因为我对你作品中那些日常物品的重新排列方式印象深刻，我想到了Helen Marten，她谈到艺术作品中对材料的谨慎。我觉得你的作品从那方面来看也很有趣。

Y: 当我在蛇形画廊看Helen Marten的展览时，她提醒我雕塑和材料的结合方式是能引导眼睛顺着作品关注到她的制作系统或作品主题展开的方式的。

S: 说回柔软和危险之间的关系。我觉得坚硬一直和像盾、刀或者短剑这样的保护联系在一起，但也许你说的是那种心理上的危险感受，而非真正的事情。

Y: 是的，到目前为止，让我最不舒服的事情莫过于悬在半空那种不稳定的感觉。我觉得如果人们感到了不稳定性，他们会开始思考应对方式。所以我求助于科学，希望找到应对方式。柔软的物质就是其中一种应对情感危机的方式，这也是我探索其他材料的出发点。

S: 我看过你的作品《木-目，目-人》，你把一个投影仪用一根长棍绑在你的头上，然后邀请观众把小木片放在长棍一端，直到另一端投影出来的眼睛和投影在墙上的眼睛重合。我觉得在这件参与性作品中，你似乎在解构“相見”这个词。

Y: 是的。我在教外国朋友汉字的时候想到了这一点，我必须找到一个保持他们好奇心的出发点。我把汉字拆开、重组，然后发现历史是那么丰富。当我从加拿大回到香港时，这对我来说是一种学汉字的好方法。对我来说，把汉字拆开然后编个故事会更方便记忆。所以我开始了对象形文字的研究，这也是教外国朋友记住汉字更加有效的办法。繁体字蕴含了许多老祖宗生存的智慧，比如“相見”这个词包含了树和眼睛、一个人和一双眼睛的相遇。这不不仅仅是“看见”，还是“相识”。根据香港中文大学的资料库，“相”可以追溯到人类爬上树探测敌人的到来。我觉得这些意思很有趣，它们应该和哲学、考古学一起延续下去。

S: 聊回你为毕业展制作的作品，它给人感觉很有表演性。

Y: 对，我是从对表演性的思考出发的。

S: 你有好几件表演作品都和“忍耐”有关，忍耐疼痛、坏天气，你的某个视频尤其让我震惊：你站在海边，你开始切割你制作的手臂。

Y: 通过这些表演，我发现了许多人对我的信任。在我表演《木-目，目-人》时，我信任我的观众，因为我可能会因为缺氧而死。我总是独自工作，但这次我就想，我们来玩游戏吧，把人们叫到一起来进行我的实验。铁棍非常重，我必须在头和脖子之间找到平衡。如果发生任何危险，我的助手Ismene会叫停表演。我的想法就是，观众将被投影出来的我朋友的眼睛和我的眼睛之间找到平衡，这两双眼睛会重合。有些人没有成功。最终，有些人成功了，我的朋友告诉我现场的气氛由紧张沉默转变为释然开朗。我的艺术家朋友Jiyoung Yoo提到她最后看到我鞠躬时特别感动。每场气氛都不一样，每场表演我都想带给大家能量，分享我的经历。

S: 谈谈你的影像作品《It Says There Is A Dead Body》，其中你和一个人体模型在一起睡了三天，而且就你一个人。

Y: 这是一件很私人的作品，我觉得它超越了我其他作品，我试着面对我想象中的危险。

S: 就像有妄想症。

Y: 对，所以我做了这样一个可怕的人偶，然后在他旁边睡了三天，这样我的恐惧就会消散了。这是一个实验，我做了这个逼真的恐怖的人形，然后观察我对它的反应，也许我会把它当成朋友。我和它一起睡了三个晚上，但我很害怕。我觉得它会活过来，然后用它没有手臂的身体触碰我。我整日整夜地想着如何应对它，但在最后我觉得，我满脑子都是恐惧。这些想象中的危险是那种强迫性的警告，我们不能自动控制它，只能在现实生活中加以克服。理解了这一点，我开始不再害怕独自生活。

S: 这就像一种治疗。

Y: 这是一种训练，我觉得训练是我一辈子要做的事, 是长期的、应对机制的自我训练。我在毕业展上的所有作品都是关于如何应对的。

S: 在你的毕业展上我们看到了这个和棍子连接起来的半圆形的东西，我发现在你的早期作品《Me(n)tal Skin Cage 02》中也有这个。这像是假体，你是把这个从早期作品中搬过来的吗？

Y: 对，这就像是一个活动的手杖。我想以那件作品为起点是很好的。当我开始制作下一件作品时，我总是想着这件作品，它是怎么开始的。

S: 你会和之前的作品和想法建立联系。

Y: 还有之前的声音。在现场表演中，我更注重的是人们触碰金属家具的声音。人们走来走去，我也走向他们。他们可以抓住我的笼子的把手，但没有人这么做。当我在地板上敲打钢铁时，在笼子里自言自语时，或者在笼子里丢钢铁的废料时，会发出叮咚的声音，这一切都是观众描述的现场音乐体验的一部分。从那以后，我开始注重声音，并且更多地发掘那一方面，甚至开始和音乐专家、音乐家合作。